Center to Tower

[mattey22]

Looking at putting in an ERR to a higher level tower close by to my center. Looking to just try something a little different, but not looking for it to be my final destination.
How would it potentially affect me in the future again if I wanted to transfer to a different center than my original? It looks like centers typically pick up center and tower pick up tower (at least first choice on the rankings list). Would the previous center experience help me get back in?
(Only reason I want to do this is because I don’t want to leave the area for ~5 years, but want to try something new).
Also how is the transition on something like that? Anyone on here done it?

 

[the inquirer]

You’re talking as if it’s so easy to transfer. I recommend you put in for where you would want to spend the rest of your career because you never know what the future holds. I left a Z and then they couldn’t release for 2.5 years. This coming up panel they can finally release one or two again.
Now to answer your question, it’s all about if you can release and who else you are competing against. Definitely depends on networking.

 

[mattey22]

You’re talking as if it’s so easy to transfer. I recommend you put in for where you would want to spend the rest of your career because you never know what the future holds. I left a Z and then they couldn’t release for 2.5 years. This coming up panel they can finally release one or two again.
Now to answer your question, it’s all about if you can release and who else you are competing against. Definitely depends on networking.

Believe me, I understand transferring isn’t easy, but we should be able to let a few go before the end of this year. Due to some family reasons we will still be here for a few years and it was more to just try something new since we will be staying in the same area. If I was able to move to my dream facility at the moment I would be putting in for it now

 

[hpwjuicebox]

If someone at my Z got picked up so they could move across town to the tower just for fun, instead of all the people who want to get home i think I’d lose it.

 

[Phillyman2633]

Don't expect it to be easy. Z transfers tend to struggle mightily to adjust to working in the tower environment where everything is close together...hitting gaps for departures, runway crossings, generally just running aircraft much closer than they're comfortable with. Don't take that personally, I have done FAMs to centers and have no idea what I'm looking at and would never want to try it.

Not to say you shouldn't try, but don't expect it to be something easy you'll just give a shot like a nice Sunday afternoon drive.

 

[RalphBeast]

Would the previous center experience help me get back in?

In theory yes. In practice at our Z, you would look a fidgety unstable toddler who doesn't know what tf he wants and would be considered a flight risk from day 1. You would be ranked very low. We are a semi-desirable Z, however. If you decide you miss the center life, there's always ZOA and ZNY.

I work at the busiest area of our Z, and we've had guys leave for busy TRACONS and towers (always related to location, not because they were bored), and their success rate has been pretty high. But it's a busy, fairly complicated area that requires natural aptitude, even our worst CPC is pretty decent. Only recent washout I know of was at LAX, but my guess is a lot of lvl 10-12 tower controllers would wash there as well.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Looking at putting in an ERR to a higher level tower close by to my center. Looking to just try something a little different, but not looking for it to be my final destination.
How would it potentially affect me in the future again if I wanted to transfer to a different center than my original? It looks like centers typically pick up center and tower pick up tower (at least first choice on the rankings list). Would the previous center experience help me get back in?
(Only reason I want to do this is because I don’t want to leave the area for ~5 years, but want to try something new).
Also how is the transition on something like that? Anyone on here done it?

Reference the transition, I’d say the biggest difficulty would be acclimating to getting your head up and out the windows after being used to years of staring at a scope for separation. You may be overly reliant on a tower radar display at first when your focus should be on the runways, taxiways, and final approach visually. I’m sure it’s just time to retrain the brain but it would likely feel uncomfortable for a while because the two operational environments are so different, they are essentially two separate careers.

 

[conyo]

What does tower to a center look like?

 

[MickWhoopin]

What does tower to a center look like?

I'm curious about that too

 

[corn4ahead]

What does tower to a center look like?

I was formerly at a 6 up/down and a 8 up/down. Now I’m at one of the busiest (and almost definitely most complex) area of my 12 Z.

It was not an easy transition. The equipment has its advantages but it also has its drawbacks. STARS is stupid in a lot of ways (ABCDE keyboard). WHY DOESN’T ERAM HAVE *T !!!!!! Where is the min function…. So dumb.

Anyway. Updating routes is way better in ERAM and track pick is cool.

But I miss a lot of the functionality of STARs. Also, why do I have to keep 5 miles when I have passing courses..they are never going to hit…and we have ADSB and 7 different radar sites..so don’t say it’s “radar limitations.”

Pilots also don’t listen in the flight levels. I was not used to having to repeat myself 6 times to get a pilots’ response. It gets seriously annoying!

Conceptually, it’s a whole different way to work. There’s a lot more projection and planning in an en route environment and less “rapid-fire, fly by the seat of your pants” controlling.

As far as if you have no radar experience…it’s a tough transition from tower only to a Z. I was treated as if I was an academy grad and you will be treated the same. Nobody cares of your experience if it isn’t from another Z. Certification can definitely be done from a tower only but it doesn’t really translate a whole lot. But at least you will have experience talking to airplanes.

 

[abc1234]

I was formerly at a 6 up/down and a 8 up/down. Now I’m at one of the busiest (and almost definitely most complex) area of my 12 Z.

It was not an easy transition. The equipment has its advantages but it also has its drawbacks. STARS is stupid in a lot of ways (ABCDE keyboard). WHY DOESN’T ERAM HAVE *T !!!!!! Where is the min function…. So dumb.

Anyway. Updating routes is way better in ERAM and track pick is cool.

But I miss a lot of the functionality of STARs. Also, why do I have to keep 5 miles when I have passing courses..they are never going to hit…and we have ADSB and 7 different radar sites..so don’t say it’s “radar limitations.”

Pilots also don’t listen in the flight levels. I was not used to having to repeat myself 6 times to get a pilots’ response. It gets seriously annoying!

Conceptually, it’s a whole different way to work. There’s a lot more projection and planning in an en route environment and less “rapid-fire, fly by the seat of your pants” controlling.

As far as if you have no radar experience…it’s a tough transition from tower only to a Z. I was treated as if I was an academy grad and you will be treated the same. Nobody cares of your experience if it isn’t from another Z. Certification can definitely be done from a tower only but it doesn’t really translate a whole lot. But at least you will have experience talking to airplanes.

1. EN ROUTE, TERMINAL (when STARS Multi-Sensor Mode is selected). Vertical separation between aircraft may be discontinued when they are on opposite courses as defined in paragraph 1-2-2, Course Definitions; and

1. You are in communications with both aircraft involved; and
2. You tell the pilot of one aircraft about the other aircraft, including position, direction, type; and
3. One pilot reports having seen the other aircraft and that the aircraft have passed each other; and
4. You have observed that the radar targets have passed each other; and
5. You have advised the pilots if either aircraft is classified as a super or heavy aircraft.
6. Although vertical separation may be discontinued, the requirements of paragraph 5-5-4, Minima, subparagraph g must be applied when wake turbulence separation is required.

EXAMPLE-
“Traffic, twelve o'clock, Boeing Seven Twenty Seven, opposite direction. Do you have it in sight?”
(If the answer is in the affirmative):
“Report passing the traffic.”
(When pilot reports passing the traffic and the radar targets confirm that the traffic has passed, issue appropriate control instructions.)

 

[bosb737]

As a CPC at a Z, do you have to go back to OKC? I read before that you didn’t if you were a CPC, but that might be something to consider. Say, going from a 11-12 Z to a 7-tower, would you be required to go?

 

[ManBearPig]

As a CPC at a Z, do you have to go back to OKC? I read before that you didn’t if you were a CPC, but that might be something to consider. Say, going from a 11-12 Z to a 7-tower, would you be required to go?

 

[corn4ahead]

1. EN ROUTE, TERMINAL (when STARS Multi-Sensor Mode is selected). Vertical separation between aircraft may be discontinued when they are on opposite courses as defined in paragraph 1-2-2, Course Definitions; and
2. You are in communications with both aircraft involved; and
3. You tell the pilot of one aircraft about the other aircraft, including position, direction, type; and
4. One pilot reports having seen the other aircraft and that the aircraft have passed each other; and
5. You have observed that the radar targets have passed each other; and
6. You have advised the pilots if either aircraft is classified as a super or heavy aircraft.
7. Although vertical separation may be discontinued, the requirements of paragraph 5-5-4, Minima, subparagraph g must be applied when wake turbulence separation is required.

EXAMPLE-
“Traffic, twelve o'clock, Boeing Seven Twenty Seven, opposite direction. Do you have it in sight?”
(If the answer is in the affirmative):
“Report passing the traffic.”
(When pilot reports passing the traffic and the radar targets confirm that the traffic has passed, issue appropriate control instructions.)

Not what I’m talking about.

That’s opposite courses.