New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[ManBearPig]

Because hiring people to live where they want to live I paramount to fixing staffing

People will always chase green. Both the money and the grass.

 

[slater]

Week of eves and week of days.

 

[Nothanks]

People will always chase green. Both the money and the grass.

Correct

 

[SquawkHijack]

Yeah send a bunch of OTS hires to level 9 and above while many CPCs are stuck at levels 4-8.

I'm sure that won't piss anyone off. Not that the FAA or natca cares. "Keep putting in your time and paying your natca/PAC dues BrOtherrrr"

Yep, god for bid you’re stuck at a level 12 at the top of the pay band AND get things like child care taken care of by the agency because of facility staffing, but if you’re stuck at a level 5 you need to STFU apparently… there are some people in here who literally could not be handed prosperity on a silver platter.

 

[Nothanks]

Another thread, off the rails onto another topic


ADHD is real

 

[SquawkHijack]

Because hiring people to live where they want to live I paramount to fixing staffing

And they can wait like everyone else, nobody gives a shit about where a trainee wants to be, and certainly don’t give a shit about your facility’s staffing over their own.

 

[DADDYSbabyBIRD]

I love all the talk about lower level people failing higher levels vs OTS, or military vs CTI... it's all quite dumb. It's the same argument that someone who's been in the agency for a long time will inherently be better than someone newer. It all really doesn't matter much, the person matters. It matters how much they care to study/learn, their innate abilities that you can't teach, their personal strive to be good and care for the job, their ability to handle the unique stresses of the job and working traffic, the ability to deal with the people around them. I have seen OTS lvl 12s be great and others be terrible, I have seen military controllers go to a level five and wash on FD/CD and others be awesome and checkout super quick. I have seen a level 8 vfr tower controller suck at a 12 and hardly pass while a level 7 and a 9 of towers killed it and passed quickly. A long in the agency 12 center goes to a 12 radar and fails, a level 5 up/down goes to the same radar and passes without much trouble. A 5 up/down with prior navy goes to a 8 updown and washes while multiple OTS,CTI, and mil from the same 5 all go on to level 8-12s and pass without problem. It's not where they came from or even fully their experience (it plays a role, more in time to checkout than anything but it does play a role) but it's the person. There are fantastic people stuck at low level places that would be amazing to have at the higher level places. There's people that are CPCs at high level places who are simply trash (we all know who they are, and no one likes them being checked out). They might even transfer and wash from a level 5 if they ever tried it. The NCEPT is terrible at getting the right people moved up, the old system was terrible at getting the right people moved up. The FAA just sees numbers, NATCA only sees "fairness" as long as you're pac donations are high enough or you're facrep will speak well of you.

 

[Raise when?]

If you got less than 5-8 years in, you might want to explore other options. I can't recommend this job to anyone right now.

And NATCa, you didn't see this coming in 2017/2019? I get it's the FAAs job to hire, but don't you want more members? Or to look out for current members? Why didn't you go to congress 7-10 years ago?

Sorry bro, they were busy reupping the slate book and calling it a great victory

 

[KiloZulu]

And they can wait like everyone else, nobody gives a shit about where a trainee wants to be, and certainly don’t give a shit about your facility’s staffing over their own.

Speak for yourself. It's really frustrating watching our trainees constantly quit because they're not where they want to be and they have no chance of getting home.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

CRWG is a pipe dream. My facility...14 to 22.?? An increase of 50% staffing? Didn't the FAA see a total net increase of 15 CPCs last year. And if my facilities goal is a 50% increase, what about everyone else? What about the mandatory 6 day work week facilities?

We probably need an net increase of 750 CPCs each year for the next 3-4 years, thats just to tread water for when the next retirement wave hits in 6-8 years. If your not retiring in 6-8 years good luck!!

Edit: So do you trust the FAA to hire and retain? Many people quitting. How will they hire and train MANY in the next few years? If they were to triple capacity at OKC, what would that net? And that's probably not an option to increase infrastructure that quick.

If you got less than 5-8 years in, you might want to explore other options. I can't recommend this job to anyone right now.

And NATCa, you didn't see this coming in 2017/2019? I get it's the FAAs job to hire, but don't you want more members? Or to look out for current members? Why didn't you go to congress 7-10 years ago?

CRWG is a solution for the long term. The controllers just getting hired or being hired next 5 years will benefit from it. Unfortunately, the current controllers who are 10 years in will have to work through the hard phases of CRWG.

 

[Deuce]

Yep, god for bid you’re stuck at a level 12 at the top of the pay band AND get things like child care taken care of by the agency because of facility staffing, but if you’re stuck at a level 5 you need to STFU apparently… there are some people in here who literally could not be handed prosperity on a silver platter.

What facilities take care of childcare?

 

[32andBelow]

CRWG is a solution for the long term. The controllers just getting hired or being hired next 5 years will benefit from it. Unfortunately, the current controllers who are 10 years in will have to work through the hard phases of CRWG.

It’s a pencil wiped spreadsheet that a bunch of reps pulled crazy numbers out of their ass. You need actual systemic changes to fix staffing. Some of the new numbers are comically high

 

[Phanatical]

It’s a pencil wiped spreadsheet that a bunch of reps pulled crazy numbers out of their ass. You need actual systemic changes to fix staffing. Some of the new numbers are comically high

It was a collaborative effort between the ATMs and the reps. The Agency has just as much stake in the CRWG as the Union.

 

[SquawkHijack]

What facilities take care of childcare?

The ones with at least 50 employees? Article 31 brah.

That prerequisite basically means all high level facilities. I was just using that as an example but if you have 49 employees you’re 100% on your own because that makes sense for the gubment.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Speak for yourself. It's really frustrating watching our trainees constantly quit because they're not where they want to be and they have no chance of getting home.

And where’s that my fault? (Or anyone else’s)

The trainee accepts their facility like everyone else whether an AG or a prior. Blame them for signing the offer letter, moving there and wasting your time.

 

[abc1234]

They have to be rotating. I wouldn't mind doing my turn working a week of mids once a month. If they forced me to work straight mids only I would be looking for the quickest way out of here. Seniority shouldn't fuck people at the bottom that hard.

I mean it already does. I've got almost a decade in the agency, over 1/3 done with my career, and I'm still required to work every single Friday and Saturday night with a quick turn to Sunday morning.

 

[ChuckNovember]

Speak for yourself. It's really frustrating watching our trainees constantly quit because they're not where they want to be and they have no chance of getting home.

People on here hate to admit that allowing trainees to have say in where they live would fix staffing much faster.

 

[ROMAJC]

The ones with at least 50 employees? Article 31 brah.

That prerequisite basically means all high level facilities. I was just using that as an example but if you have 49 employees you’re 100% on your own because that makes sense for the gubment.

Maybe Centers have this. 90+ at my level 12, no childcare.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Maybe Centers have this. 90+ at my level 12, no childcare.

Yeah if it’s not a Z it most likely won’t be at the facility.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

It’s a pencil wiped spreadsheet that a bunch of reps pulled crazy numbers out of their ass. You need actual systemic changes to fix staffing. Some of the new numbers are comically high

if natca succeeds and changes the language requiring FAA to hire to CRWG numbers it will fix staffing in the long run. That is the difference, getting FAA off of their finance driven model.

Also, as always you aren’t correct and half way there in your statement. CRWG was collaborated between Union Reps and ATMs then signed off on by a third party- MITRE.