Serious Fatigue Memo 5/3/2024

[GulfCharlie]

Yeah there were a couple of GMs who decided "it wasn't legal" or some BS. We can't do 4 10s without mandatory 1 day of OT for everyone. We have a couple lines with them, but that's it.

The GM position is one of the biggest scams created by agency.

 

[32andBelow]

The GM position is one of the biggest scams created by agency.

It’s all so they can make temp sups and OMs to stop any controller movement

 

[showtime]

If you don't have the staffing for everyone to do 4 10s, that is the most likely outcome at this juncture.

4-10s would turn to 6 days work weeks. Potentially even 6-10s. Eww

 

[32andBelow]

4-10s would turn to 6 days work weeks. Potentially even 6-10s. Eww

It covers the exact same amount of hours as any other schedule.

 

[jfol]

It covers the exact same amount of hours as any other schedule.

And 20 hours OT. That OT in a low level shithole is actually paying for the rent. Sacrifice sanity for pay.

 

[ManBearPig]

It covers the exact same amount of hours as any other schedule.

Except you have way more over lap in shifts, and end up with "wasted" hours. There is less coverage day to day with 4 10s

 

[32andBelow]

Except you have way more over lap in shifts, and end up with "wasted" hours. There is less coverage day to day with 4 10s

You can overlap them absolutely however you want

 

[ManBearPig]

You can overlap them absolutely however you want

I mean, you can overlap them however you negotiate the BWS.

With 4 10s, you lose coverage days. The hours worked are the same, but the number of days are not. If you are min staffed on a 5 day work week, 4 10s will not work.

 

[KiloZulu]

why are they bitching?
—— it’ll possibly require less sleep and recovery time to make it work. On paper it sounds great, but in low staffed facilities, it’ll be a nightmare.

Correct. Staffing is a bigger factor towards fatigue than schedules will ever be and it continues to be ignored.

Why do we care? Staffing is an FAA problem. I work at a 12, and sure it sucks when you sit for 2+ hours because you have all the traffic and none of the bodies, but I also like having a real life more than long breaks. If this means I get to have a healthier sleep schedule and the airlines get to eat TMI delays then that's fine by me.

 

[Spoony90]

The GM position is one of the biggest scams created by agency.

You mean any management position? There ain’t enough astroglide in the world for me to shove my head up my azz to be management

 

[showtime]

It covers the exact same amount of hours as any other schedule.

Why do we care? Staffing is an FAA problem. I work at a 12, and sure it sucks when you sit for 2+ hours because you have all the traffic and none of the bodies, but I also like having a real life more than long breaks. If this means I get to have a healthier sleep schedule and the airlines get to eat TMI delays then that's fine by me.

The two hours on position is not the problem, I’ll do that standing on my head. It’s when they are assigning even more overtime to make the new rules work. We’ll need more coverage with the same amount of people. If they make mids your first shift, get ready to be at your facility 7 days per week.

 

[KP-ATC]

Rattler is based if you only work 5 days a week. But it’s going away. So now the question becomes. What will NATCA get approved as the new normal. We need to make sure we don’t wind up with some total bullshit out of this.

Schedules are negotiated locally. There has always been limitations on what could be done. Now there will be more limitations.

 

[ATCJoe85]

If they make mids your first shift, get ready to be at your facility 7 days per week.

By and far my biggest concern. Going home after a morning shift instead of a mid on my Friday is bad as it is... it adds 1-1.5 hours to my commute, not to mention adding 3 hours driving to my week since I don't normally go home between my day/mid. But if I am expected to be in the facility 7 days a week, they can expect me to be using my sick leave bi-weekly.

That's if I don't finally man up and just quit.

 

[32andBelow]

Schedules are negotiated locally. There has always been limitations on what could be done. Now there will be more limitations.

Yah but they can guide what’s deemed acceptable from a national level

 

[HurryUpandWait]

The GM position is one of the biggest scams created by agency.

and there is Assistant GMs also

 

[Tater_Toad]

Why don't we do quarterly rotations like a regular workforce?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Why don't we do quarterly rotations like a regular workforce?

What regular workforce lol? I know some places do that but there are a million different things places do with a 24 hour job, nothing is really considered normal. Lots of senior people would shit their pants at the prospect of rotating days off or shifts (and those people usually control the schedule).

By and far my biggest concern. Going home after a morning shift instead of a mid on my Friday is bad as it is... it adds 1-1.5 hours to my commute, not to mention adding 3 hours driving to my week since I don't normally go home between my day/mid. But if I am expected to be in the facility 7 days a week, they can expect me to be using my sick leave bi-weekly.

That's if I don't finally man up and just quit.

You will eventually run out of sick leave. That would be part of their long term plan.

 

[5600k2]

Maybe it's because what the fuck is an extra hour gonna do? Are you for real? A whole extra hour.

For me an extra hour will make all the difference on the quick turn, I can get close to 8 hours sleep with that.

However the main issue for me is not the time between shifts but the constantly changing / earlier shifting wake up times. Even when I have 14 hours between shifts I struggle going to sleep earlier and end up waking up tired. This is where I am interested to see what NATCA comes up with. Hopefully they also hammer the agency on 6 day weeks during these negotiations

 

[Tater_Toad]

What regular workforce lol? I know some places do that but there are a million different things places do with a 24 hour job, nothing is really considered normal. Lots of senior people would shit their pants at the prospect of rotating days off or shifts (and those people usually control the schedule).

You don't have to rotate your days off for fucks sake. Literally every time I mention quarterly rotations people flip the fuck out about rotating rdo. We flip every fucking week. Mornings/nights every fucking week. It's the stupidest shit. A week of nights then a quick turn OT. Then a week of mornings and a night OT.

 

[Mike Kilo]

You don't have to rotate your days off for fucks sake. Literally every time I mention quarterly rotations people flip the fuck out about rotating rdo. We flip every fucking week. Mornings/nights every fucking week. It's the stupidest shit. A week of nights then a quick turn OT. Then a week of mornings and a night OT.

That does sound like the stupidest shit ever. Gimme the rattler on W/T over that shit.